CHOOSE TO MAKE EACH OTHER FAMILY: Relationship Advice from Andi Zeisler
Andi Zeisler is one of my favorite feminists. The founder of Bitch magazine is one of those people who, as you’re sitting together picking away at brunch omelettes, will talk off-the-cuff about her life and ideas in a way that’s so articulate that all you can contribute to the conversation is a couple “yeah”s and loud slurps of coffee. On a recent morning in Portland’s City State Diner, I munched on toast while she talked intelligently about marriage, independence, and the need to be impolite.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO DATE A TON OF PEOPLE.
The effort of dating, of meeting people, really wore me out. I’m a real introvert, I don’t really enjoy the feeling of needing to put myself out there. The whole thing of like, oh there’s someone, I have to figure out whether they like me, I have to be in the same place as them, I have to look cute, I have to figure out things to talk about. But I felt like, “Dating is what I’m supposed to be doing, I’m going to do it just so I haven’t left too many paths unexplored. I’m just going to say yes to people.”
I wasn’t miserable, but it didn’t feel like me and it never felt right. I remember when I met my husband Jeffery, telling my mom, “I think this guy’s really special.” She was really dismissive, saying, “You’re going to date hundreds of guys.” I said, “That sounds terrible.”
Jeffery and I have been married for ten years. I met him at a concert. I literally saw him across the crowded Greek Theater in Berkeley and was like, “I’m going to marry that guy with the tube socks and glasses.” I was not even in that mindset at all, it wasn’t something I’d ever thought before. I just turned around and through a couple thousand people, saw him and thought, “There’s something about that dude.” Than I just turned around and went about my business, I didn’t even really try to meet him.
I don’t really believe in love at first sight. I feel like I’m very superstitious in a lot of ways and that some things happen when they’re supposed to happen. But I don’t try to organize my life around the idea that fate happens.
At the theater, we bumped into one another and talked for maybe two minutes, and then were like, “Okay, bye.” What do you say in that situation? What am I going to do, ask him to come home with me? Then, when I left, I was in the BART station waiting to buy my ticket and he ran in and said, “Here’s my number, I’m here for a few days, call me.”
I think we both felt an instant thing of, like, “I don’t know you that well, but I know you’re going to be really important to me.” I think it’s an illustration of the idea that if you’re not looking for love, that’s what will happen. I think all the relationships I’d had previous to that, there was a fundamental gut feeling that something was off about them, I was always ignoring my gut to some extent and this didn’t really have any of that, this felt really good right off.
POLITENESS CAN BE PARALYZING
I was in a long-term relationship from when I was 23 till I was about 25. Really from the beginning, I didn’t feel good about it. But I somehow felt compelled to stay in the relationship because I felt like, “This is what a relationship is supposed to be and I need to experience it.” I wasn’t punishing myself, I was just trying to make myself be what I thought was normal.
What I really wanted to do at that time was sleep with a bunch of people and not have a boyfriend. But for some reason, I couldn’t give myself permission to believe that was okay. So what I ended up doing was being in this relationship and just cheating on him a lot. It felt awful, but I felt like I’d committed to him at some point. After six months, I thought, well I have to stick it out for at least a year.
We went down to Southern California to visit his family and his mother treated me like I was going to marry her son. She made me this soap cozy—this little cloth dress that goes over your soap—with “Andi’s Kitchen” stitched on it. I was like, “Whoa, she really thinks this is happening.” And then I realized, he thinks this is happening, too.
I think my default is to be very polite and that gets me into a lot of goofy sitcom moments where I just can’t get out of something. This was one of those moments. I was like, “Holy crap, this whole family thinks we’re getting married and meanwhile I’m sleeping with someone else.” Instead of being straight with him, I felt paralyzed. I did not want to admit to myself that maybe I am just not a person who wants a boyfriend. Maybe I just want to be alone and have guys to sleep with when I want to. I wasn’t able to come to grips with the fact that that’s what I really wanted.
I remember the first time he put his arm around me when we were walking down the street, it felt so wrong. I felt like my whole body was rejecting his arm, it was just so heavy. And that was in the first four weeks dating, so if i’d really listened to myself, I would have said, “Let’s just keep it casual” and gotten out of it.
I look back on it and there were so many ways I could have mitigated that relationship if I’d had a better sense of myself or the language I wanted to use, or a feeling that I was entitled to something beyond that. The whole relationship became this snowball of bad choices, mostly on my part.
BE ON THE SAME PAGE WITH GENDER ROLES.
I used to work at Pottery Barn. It was such a bastion of heteronormativity, we called it Pregnancy Barn. It seemed like someone was either always getting pregnant or getting enganged. I was privy to a lot of conversations about, like, how acceptable is a half carat diamond? What’s a proper proposal protocol? I felt like a real outlier, thinking those conversations were ridiculous.
Someone from Pregnancy Barn introduced me to this guy who lived in a really fancy part of town and had a really fancy job and a really fancy family. We dated for a little while, but I felt like i was being auditioned as a potential mate. At Pottery Barn at the time, everyone was on the same trajectory: You go to college, you go to work, you get married, and, if you’re a woman, you ideally stop working. He was on that track and I was clearly not on that track. There was something really attractive about dating someone who had a good job, where going out to dinner wasn’t like, “We need to split this burrito down the middle.” But on the other hand, in that relationship I just never felt comfortable.
My parents are of an older generation that is very gendered. When my father would spill something, he’d say, “Oh, honey, can you get a sponge and get that?” My mom was a real career lady—an executive at Revlon—and then when she and my dad got married, he was like, “No wife of mine is going to work” and she gave it up. I always grew up thinking, “Why should you have to do something just because he says to?”
MARRIAGE IS AS FEMINIST AS KNITTING.
Jeffery asked me to marry him just about a year after we started dating. It wasn’t really on my mind. I thought we were going to have the kind of relationship where we just dated forever and then finally got married because we wanted real plates, you know?
I didn’t grow up thinking marriage was the be all end all, and part of that’s because my mother got married very late, she had me when she was 40. So his proposal totally surprised me. But it was not impulsive on his part at all. When I did the math, I realized he had really thought about it, he had a ring made and clearly waited a while. I was like, “Um, there’s no discernible reason to say no and I can say yes and not have to have everything figured out. So, okay, let’s do this.”
And then, when I thought about marriage, it appealed to me in a way I never thought it would. We’re choosing to make each other family.
The way I feel about marriage and feminism now is the way I feel about knitting. I like knitting and I’m a feminist who knits. But I would never say knitting is a feminst act. And I’m a feminst who’s married, but I would never say getting married is a feminist act. It’s really hard to say, “I am going to bend this institution to fit my idea of feminism.” You almost can’t divorce marriage from it’s historical ideas about property and patriarchy. Those are really built into it. I’m a feminist, my husband is a feminist, but saying that we have somehow made marriage feminist, i think that would be arrogant and presumputous. You can’t transoform an institution that huge and that has so much historical baggage. You can do things within a marriage to make it more egalitarian and feminist but it does not make marriage as an instituion feminist.
MAKE SPACE FOR YOURSELF
Everyone’s marriage, unless you’re Kim Kardashian, is really private. You can’t see from the outside what’s going on within them.
Jeffery and I don’t spend that much time together. We probably spend like 45 minutes a day together. We’re both very independent people and we’re both big introverts, so in some ways, it’s a very separate marriage. I’ve always said that my ideal living situation would be two little houses that are connected. We could live very separately and we could choose whether or not to sleep in the same bed at night. He’s much more of a night owl, he works editing and retouching photos late into the night. Often he’ll just fall asleep on the couch with the dog or in the guest room.
I think what’s good is the sense of neither of us feels like, “You’re my husband, you’re my wife, therefore we must spend x amount of time together.”
Since having a child, it’s really important for us to have family time. We do spend a lot of time together on the weekends. We’ll sleep in, then eat breakfast, do some activity like go to the museum or the river where the kid can just run around. Then in the afternoon, we’ll have family quiet time, where our son has to stay in his room for some time. That was very conscious thing, because we needed some structure.
From an outsider perspective, it can sound really boring, but it just works. It feels right.